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razor ground force - multiple upgrades parts list request
fyi: According to this guy the ground force has a weak axle when adults and extra power/motor are added to it. He had to replace the axle with a drifter axle I believe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8vBZ9DGdmU&t=108s
ESP Support
A battery charger port could be connected directly to the battery pack, or if you are replacing the controller then the new controller will most likely have a connector for the charger port to plug into. I do not recommend using a 12 Volt trickle charger because it does not turn off when the charge is complete, and you would only be able to recharge one battery at a time with it. A 36 Volt smart or automatic battery charger would better to use and will turn off after the charge is complete which prevents the battery pack from being overcharged.
Electric scooter, bike, and go kart battery chargers are designed for charging only one Voltage of battery pack and will not charge a 24 to 60 Volt pack.
Throttle pedals (foot throttles) work with any Voltage of controller and if both a foot throttle and controller are purchased from us then we can put matching connectors on them so they are plug-and-play. We could also wire a foot throttle to be plug and play with the original controller.
We do not have any parts to make the hand brake into a foot brake.
We have one controller that operates from 24 Volts to 60 Volts. It is our item number SPD-601000A. Most other 60 Volt controllers have a low-Voltage shut off feature to protect the battery pack from being over-discharged so they will not work with a 24 volt battery pack.
A 60 Volt motor will run extremely slow on 24 Volts.
We have a Throttle Top Speed Adjustable Limiter which can be used to limit the maximum input of the throttle. It is adjusted with a screwdriver so that when the throttle is fully engaged the throttle level can be anywhere between zero throttle and full throttle. We also have this devise with a switch for switching it on and off so the speed can be limited for one driver, and not limited for another.
If you install a 36 Volt battery pack made from three batteries and do not change anything else then the controller and motor will be over-Volted and the top speed and power of the go kart will be increased from when it had its original 24 volt battery pack. This over-Volting of the electrical system will cause the controller and motor to run hotter than normal and if the heat level of these parts gets too high then they will burn out.
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
thank you so much for your response.
Ok I figured out the battery wiring with your help. thanks!
I think I will go with a 48v system. Do you have a 48v charger? If so, please send link. Or can I just use a 36v charger? I might also just use a 12v 6amp smart charger and wire the batteries in parallel outside of the car to charge them.
Ok I will be purchasing a foot throttle from you and a new controller so I will mention that I want it to be plug and play once I place the order. What are my options for a foot pedal? Any of them?
Ok cool I will be getting the SPD-601000A. Is there any downside going with this controller vs a 48v controller?
So lets talk about motors. I want to go with a 48v motor. Do we have any that are the same size and mount in the same location as the stock one? Would I need to change the chain? How does wattage effect things? More torque? Right now I was running 36v to stock everything. If I change the controller and motor to 48v, would that give me more speed or more torque or both?
Awesome! Could you send me a link to the speed adjustable limiter and the switch? Would this make things more complicated to wire or is it plug and play?
Thanks for all your help!
ESP Support
Our foot throttle options can be found on this page: http://electricscooterparts.com/throttlesstandard.html#footthrottle
The only downside to the SPD-601000A controller is that it does not have under Voltage protection so the battery pack could be over-discharged which would lower its lifespan. A Voltmeter could be installed and monitored to make sure that the battery pack is not over-discharged though to solve this problem. The other thing to consider with the SPD-601000A is that it requires a heavy-duty power switch or power contactor, while a controller such as our SPD-481000C can be turned on and off with a light-duty power switch including a key switch or handlebar mount switch.
We do not have any 48 Volt motors that are the same size and have the same base bolt hole mounting patterns as the original motor, and even if we did then it would have the same amount of power as the original motor had so there would be no reason to upgrade to it. A larger motor with a larger mounting base will need to be installed in order to have more power. Our MOT-481000B is a good choice for this.
When a larger motor is installed a chain that is slightly larger than the original will be needed.
The Wattage of the motor and controller is effectively the horsepower rating. The higher the Watt rating that the motor and controller are the more power the kart will have. Horsepower is torque and RPM, and a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor will only have 20% more RPM than the original motor has so there will be a lot more torque with a 1000 Watt motor than with the original 250 Watt motor.
If you are running a 36 Volt battery pack to the original motor, and then upgrade to a 48 Volt motor and battery pack, then the speed will probably be around the same or maybe a little slower but the toque will be a lot higher. The reliability will be through the roof with the 48 Volt motor and controller though when compared to an overvolted 24 Volt motor.
The speed adjustable limiter is plug-and-play and has to be custom made for the controller and throttle that you choose to use. One you decide on these parts then please let us know and we will make a link for the adjustable speed limiter and attach a link to it here. The limiter can be used with just about any switch that we sell so please let us know which switch you want to use and we will wire it to plug into the adjustable speed limiter also.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
Ok looks like the safe bet is to get a 48v charger.
For the foot throttle I want item THR-89 as a plug and play. I also want the connection piece to put on the current thumb throttle to use with the new controller, basically making that plug and play also in case I want to switch back.
Ok I will go with the SPD-481000C. If I still get a voltmeter, can it be also plug and play? If so, I want to add that.
Ok I will go with the MOT-481000B plug and play
Please add the chain I will need
Any way to get a little more speed than what I am currently getting at 36v on the stock motor? Let me try to clarify. Considering the torque (not much) and speed I am getting on 36v on the stock motor, is there a way I can upgrade to 48v motor/controller but get more speed and torque than I am currently getting? Maybe change a sprocket on the motor? I still need more torque than I currently have but I don’t need a ton of torque since I wont be climbing or offroading so I am willing to sacrifice some torque (not less than what I currently have) to get some speed.
Ok definitely want the speed adjustable limiter as a plug and play.
Oh! And if possible, I am thinking about putting the dune buggy tires or some small pneumatic tires on it. What, if any, affect will it have on the car and the upgrades I am about to purchase?
Lastly, I also want to add a reverse function as plug and play.
Getting there slowly so I appreciate your patience with me
ESP Support
Yes we can make the Voltmeter plug-and-play with the controller.
I can not compare the speed and torque of an overvolted 24 Volt motor to a 48 Volt motor that is not overvolted because there are no specifications for the overvolted motor. That is something you will have to determine by trials and testing.
We can make a speed adjustable limiter plug-and-play.
Installing larger wheels will increase the gear ratio and installing smaller wheels will decrease the gear ratio. Higher gear ratios provide more speed and less torque, and lower gear ratios provide lower speed and more torque.
We can add a reverse relay and switch to the kit.
If you would like for us to build a kit with plug-and-play parts then please provide a list of the part item numbers that you would like included with the kit and we could then get started on it.
Ok cool. I need everything plug and play. Do I need to change the wires to thicker gauge? Also is there a discount if I get the entire “kit” of items?
Here is the list:
1. Thr-89. I also want the connection piece to put on the current thumb throttle to use with the new controller, basically making that plug and play also in case I want to switch back.
2. SPD-481000C
3. Voltmeter
4. MOT-481000B
5. Proper size chain
6. speed adjustable limiter
7. reverse relay and switch
8. 48v charger
9. Can I use the stock power button? If not, I will need a new one.
Please let me know if you think I am missing something I might need to make this project work.
thank you!!!
ESP Support
Another thing to consider is battery size and ride time.
A 48 Volt battery pack for a 1000 Watt motor needs to be made with minimum battery size of 10Ah, while a 36 Volt battery pack for a 1000 Watt motor needs to be made with a minimum battery size of 15Ah.
Ride time will be different depending on the Voltage and Ah rating of the battery pack. For example a 48 Volt 15Ah battery pack (four 12V 15Ah batteries) will provide a 25% longer ride time than a 36 Volt 15Ah battery pack (three 12V 15Ah batteries) when they are both used with a 1000 Watt motor.
Please consider whether to go with a 36 Volt or 48 Volt system and let me know which you decide to use. Then I will go ahead and make a 36 or 48 Volt kit depending on your choice.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
Hello again,
so i decided to go with a 36v system. but some things have changed. i now purchased a version 15 dune buggy. i want to purchase all the same items i listed above and here as plug and play:
1. Thr-89. I also want the connection piece to put on the current thumb throttle to use with the new controller, basically making that plug and play also in case I want to switch back.
2. 36v 1000w motor
3. Voltmeter
4. 36v 1000w controller – whichever one is fine with a light duty power switch
5. Proper size chain
6. speed adjustable limiter
7. reverse relay and switch
8. 36v charger
9. Can I use the stock power button? If not, I will need a new one in the package.
10. Can I use the stock 3 prong power port? If not, I will need a new one in the package.
11. Is there any other wires I need to replace? If so, please include in my package.
Regarding the chain, I want to run delete the jackshaft but I don’t understand how to do that and what parts I would need. Please help. and please include these parts in my package.
Also in this thread, https://support.electricscooterparts.com/support/discussions/topics/1000084708, it states that the motor with the mount wont work because its too high. I don’t understand that at all because when I am looking at my stock motor, there is a ton of room between the top of the motor and frame (at least 5 inches of room). So are we sure it wont fit with the mounting plate? If in your opinion it wont fit, then please put the one without the mounting plate in my package.
ESP Support
The stock power switch can not be used on a 1000 Watt kit with reverse so I included a compatible toggle switch with the kit for reverse.
The stock 3 prong charger port is not plug and play with the controller in the kit, so I included a charger port with the kit that is plug and play.
The kit will include all necessary wires and no other wires or wiring will be needed.
No parts are needed to remove the jackshaft. There should be a C-clip that holds it onto the frame and once the clip is removed then the jackshaft can be pulled out of the frame.
Here is a photo of a 1000 Watt motor without mounting base installed onto the frame.
You will notice in the photo that the top of the motor barely clears the frame. A 1000 Watt motor with a mounting base would be around 1/2" taller than the same motor without a mounting base so it would not fit inside of the frame.
Please have a look at all of the parts and wire lengths in the kit to verify that everything is okay. If you would like any changes made to the kit then please let us know.
fawad shah
Hello,
i appreciate your help. I just got a used razor ground force, version 3 i believe. I have a bunch of questions even though i read through your forums lol
I am initially going to purchase 3 12v batteries. whats weird is the razor has a set of positive and negative wires (2 sets) for 2 batteries and it makes them wired in series behind the harness connection. sorry if that doesnt make sense. i just cant understand how to connect 3 batteries in series with this setup. never mind if that doesnt make sense. i can figure this part out.
in that same picture there is a wire connected to a harness where the battery charger port should be. not sure if this was modified or if its how old models use to come. anyways, can i just put some posts on the end of the wires and connect it to a 12v trickle charger? any other option?
Here are my main questions:
1. is there such thing as a charger that can charge from 24 to 60v?
2. do you have a pedal that can handle 24v to 60v? and can you make it plug and play?
3. can i make the hand brakes into a foot brake? do you have a plug and play?
4. do you have a controller that can handle 24v to 60v? what happens if i give a 60v controller 24v?
5. same question as number 4 but for a motor.
6. is there something that can control how fast it can go? or something that can control how far someone can push the pedal?
my reasoning for the questions is i want my kids to be able to drive it but also have it potentially 60v for me. so maybe i will upgrade voltage over time but want to buy everything else once if possible and if i do upgrade, still control the speed for the kids.
in the meantime, if i put 3 12v batteries and not change anything, will it run fine?
thanks!!!